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dalehollow
10-06-2016, 08:41 PM
Being installed in the hull and used inside the hull instead of setting up outside with a cord.

Curious in the manor in which it draws fresh air in and what design is used to vent the exhaust .

( don't want to duct tape a squirrel cage device for cool in and bad out)

Ike
10-06-2016, 09:02 PM
Honda what? Generator or outboard? If it's a portable generator then it should definitely not be inside. Read the manual. If it's an outboard you can enclose it but you need lots of ventilation.

Stmbtwle
10-07-2016, 05:36 AM
In theory you could do it, but it's neither safe nor legal. DON'T EVEN TRY!

easttnboater
10-07-2016, 06:37 AM
People have done it. As far as I know, no one has died of it. Yet. Honda generators, while excellent at what they do, are not built to be run in an enclosed space. They are not ignition protected and the exhaust is not water jacketed.

Endurance
10-07-2016, 10:48 AM
Here is a link to someone that did it in a house.

http://www.inquisition.ca/en/esd/artic/generatrice.htm#s2p4

But a boat has a danger that is worse than a house: a boat has more of an enclosed space for heavier-than-air gas fumes to gather. That doesn't bode well for a generator that has a vented gas cap that, by design, has to breathe. I would have nothing to do with enclosing an operating generator and I would have concerns about bringing a generator inside for storage if there was any gas in the tank.

dalehollow
10-08-2016, 10:48 AM
Hoping by now Honda and or the brain s
Had made it doable.

It's so efficient for it's designed use

Stmbtwle
10-09-2016, 05:50 AM
For the small number they would sell, it's probably not worth the expense to design and build one.

Ike
10-09-2016, 08:06 PM
It's so efficient for it's designed use Exactly. It's designed use is outdoors ashore. There is a reason why gasoline powered onboard generators are required to meet USCG regulations for fuel, electrical and ventilation. These portable generators do not meet those standards. They are perfectly safe when used as the manufacturer intended, but in an enclosed space on a boat they are not. In addition to being a carbon monoxide hazard, they can present a significant shock hazard on a boat. Yes, you see people using them, but they are usually mounted on the swim platform or outside on deck. Even then they can present a shock hazard if not correctly connected to the boat's electrical system.

Stmbtwle
10-09-2016, 10:30 PM
Even mounted on the swim platform they present a carbon monoxide hazard, as the exhaust gases tend to collect behind the boat ("station wagon effect") and swimmers can be poisoned. Then there's the possibility that a passing boat's wake may swamp the generator.

I used to put mine on the roof and it worked pretty well, but since I went to solar I haven't used it at all.

Sure, you CAN, but it could kill you. If you want a marine generator, buy one.

dalehollow
10-16-2016, 08:13 PM
For the small number they would sell, it's probably not worth the expense to design and build one.

A gallon or two a day versus a gallon an hour through a big ole westerbeke
1000 of hours of uninterrupted servic, no $1.98 rubber water pump impeller to shut u down,
On an on. An no one can get it cooled an vented


Spare me the Carbon monoxide issues, believe me our tech ability leap past any issues mentioned above. Years ago. So spare me the lecture on how those killer fumes accumulate. The tech ability to adapt is out there an very affordable.

Much like u, Not needing the big gen y only start my 12.5 kW monthly to keep it lubricated an fresh gas in the bowl.
Wouldn't be surprised if I don't have more hours hooking my red Honda up an actually house boating off the dock than 1/2 those wasting space about what has to work where.

Stmbtwle
10-16-2016, 09:05 PM
Honda builds a lot of stuff, cars, outboards, generators, motorcycles, and what all. I'm sure they COULD solve the "marine" issues IF they thought it was profitable to do so. They apparently don't, so I stand by my argument.

It's all about the money.

easttnboater
10-17-2016, 06:46 AM
"Spare me the Carbon monoxide issues, believe me our tech ability leap past any issues mentioned above. Years ago. So spare me the lecture on how those killer fumes accumulate. The tech ability to adapt is out there an very affordable."

You have posted about your love of your Honda generator before and made your mind up a long time ago. Who is the "our" that you reference whose tech ability has solved the problem of running an air cooled, non-spark protected generator in a marine engine compartment? Do you run yours in your engine compartment? If so, have you told your insurance agent?

Fork-lift-king
10-17-2016, 08:24 AM
Which insurance agent, Boat or Life?

dalehollow
10-17-2016, 06:50 PM
No the Honda goes far enough up on the bank that it's noise level isn't a issue for front deck chatting.
As usual Admittedly I'll try an reinvent the wheel. Historically past post will verify that.
For some reason I have a hard time understanding why this notion is so off base.

A compartment that provides fresh air in that any combustible engine needs to run.
A means to vent these killer gases up up and away.


Sometimes when I see these enormous banks of batts stuffed under the front deck, I'm sure you too would quickly recognize they aren't AGMs And life goes on

OLD HOUSEBOATER
10-17-2016, 07:40 PM
Hmmm

Don't Aqua Cruiser houseboats us Air cooled gennys in their houseboats?

RVs have used air cooled genneys for years.

The secret is in the installation.

Stmbtwle
10-17-2016, 09:15 PM
RVs don't have a hull and gas or vapors will just spill onto the ground. The few pontoons I've seen or heard of (to be honest not many) the genny is in a ventilated locker on the stern, so the results would be the same.

Hydrogen from a battery is lighter than air and (unlike gasoline) will not collect in the bilge.

dalehollow
10-18-2016, 07:15 AM
[QUOTE=Stmbtwle;6661]RVs don't have a hull and gas or vapors will just spill onto the ground. The few pontoons I've seen or heard of (to be honest not many) the genny is in a ventilated locker on the stern, so the results would be the same.

Hydrogen from a battery is lighter than air and (unlike gasoline) will not collect in the bilge

Would u say over your years experiences you have seen more boats that have gone up in smoke over batt related issues,
Than deaths/ hospitalization, due to carbon monoxide issues?

Later we know usually is reported with more coverage because death is involved.
Little Apple a oranges for sure

easttnboater
10-18-2016, 08:40 AM
The secret is in the installation.


Absolutely. And, not installed in an enclosed engine compartment.

Put it on the top deck, put it on the swim platform (just don't swim back there while it is running), put it on the shore - all OK.

Running a portable gas generator in your engine compartment and somehow venting the exhaust outside - not OK.

Couple died in FL during Matthew from running a generator in their garage - http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Hurricane-Matthew-Florida-couple-dies-of-generator-fumes--396368231.html

Stmbtwle
10-18-2016, 11:02 AM
I'm aware of several incidents over the years from CO poisoning on a boat, though some from "properly installed" water-cooled generators. If the exhaust goes out through the transom you're at risk. On top of that the things plain STINK. And I personally know of a couple boats that EXPLODED due to gas vapors. One of the reasons mine is diesel.

There was at least one death just a week or so ago from running a portable generator in the garage during Hurricane Matthew.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/news/20161010/volusia-storm-related-deaths-at-4-generator-fumes-kill-daytona-boy

https://www.tasanet.com/Knowledge-Center/Articles/ArtMID/477/ArticleID/338890/Carbon-Monoxide-and-Houseboat-Deaths

https://www.boats.com/how-to/portable-ac-generators-safe-for-boats/

http://www.yuchaiie.com/product/17081.html

No question, people do it all the time and MOST get away with it. Some don't, how lucky do you feel? You can also install fume detectors and CO detectors.

If it's installed below deck how are you going to refuel it?

A houseboat is an expensive toy. What does your insurance company say about it?

If you install it on a weather deck and run the exhaust such that fumes won't get pulled into the boat, you should be fine. In the engine room? NOT a good idea.

dalehollow
10-20-2016, 01:52 AM
When u ask how are u going to refuel it,
Fairly clear you haven't a clue, regarding these units and what's taking place with em.
Everything pointed out regarding venting safety installation are important issues all
The issues back when we had rotary phones, wink
My dock neighbor stands out back on his cruiser while it auto parks itself, Wonder if his insurance man knows what's going on.

Stmbtwle
10-20-2016, 07:01 AM
And how much did he pay for that auto-dock feature? You can do anything with enough money; even buy a real generator.

I refuel mine outside (where it runs) and it's difficult to do without spilling some. Inside a remote tank would be in order.

At least the old rotary phones didn't need batteries! :)

Fork-lift-king
10-20-2016, 12:31 PM
I also have a Honda 2000 on the swim platform on my cruiser. . I have a 12" 110 volt fan blowing on the exhaust whenever it is running. We have a CO2 monitor in the cabin to keep check of the fumes. The generator is completely in the open. Works for me.

dalehollow
10-20-2016, 12:43 PM
And how much did he pay for that auto-dock feature? You can do anything with enough money; even buy a real generator.

I refuel mine outside (where it runs) and it's difficult to do without spilling some. Inside a remote tank would be in order.

At least the old rotary phones didn't need batteries! :)

Right on batts an cell phones
Also the real dianosour in my hull the 12.5 hull is just that, an used only as a back up to the Honda which its never been needed.
No plans to buy the recirculator (is there even such a word). An venting components at Walley world.

Your right somebody at Sea Ray made a nice commission I'm sure ( that couple also didn't go to Walley world)

Guys it's got to be doable

Your all a great bunch an will test you again when the winter weather has me tied to the dock as I begin to wait an wait. Till its time to see the Rv fluid pumping out of that block.
Which I will go to Wally World in a about 6 weeks to winterize my engine

easttnboater
10-21-2016, 06:41 AM
If it was "doable" at a reasonable cost with no ongoing liability and a good ROI, then Honda would have already done it.

As stated before - put it on the roof, put in on the shore, maybe even put it on your swim platform and you are using the product within its designed capabilities.

But, put an air cooled, non-spark protected portable gasoline generator in your enclosed engine compartment and you are using the product in a way it was not designed to be used. You can redneck engineer it all you want and you are still using a product in a way it was not designed to be used. When (not if) it all goes bad, then all liability will be on you.

You are going to do whatever you want. It is still a somewhat free country and that is your prerogative.

However, to all of those that come to this board for information:

DO NOT RUN A PORTABLE GASOLINE GENERATOR INSIDE YOUR ENGINE COMPARTMENT.

Stmbtwle
10-21-2016, 07:16 AM
Well said!

dalehollow
10-21-2016, 02:36 PM
[QUOTE=dalehollow;6619]Being installed in the hull and used inside the hull instead of setting up outside with a cord.

Curious in the manor in which it draws fresh air in and what design is used to vent the exhaust .

( don't want to duct tape a squirrel cage device for cool in and bad out)

To those who read the question an understood it I ll assume at this time the answer is no.
For those that took time to post there thoughts and those who read them thanks for moving the topic along. I enjoy the give an take .
Used to be a poster who would quote those regs from the mariners handbook
Kind of miss those responses too (not)

Stmbtwle
10-21-2016, 04:28 PM
Might be of interest. http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Carbon%20monoxide%20dangers%20in%20boats.htm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg545/alerts/0310.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjci8Ll8uzPAhXFHD4KHR2SA5wQFgg0MAA&usg=AFQjCNFaTBO6aIpkgJlMG7Cv7RaFWhsVhA&sig2=Zg8fm6579EbWX3yURvykIQ

http://www.boatingmag.com/federal-regulations-marine-gasoline-engines