12/23/2007 03:48:40 PM
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mont1340
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 12/20/2007
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Just bought an older houseboat and have decided to install a
generator. The system has a single solar panel with feeds into the
"array" connection of a battery controller. From there the inverter
pulls off the four batteries. There is a standard household looking
power strip (surge protector) plugged into the top of the inverter.
The romex wiring for the boat is plugged into the power strip. I
don't have a clue if this is right but it all seems to work. We
just need more power and want to install a generator vs. more
solar. The old owner told me to just plug the generator into one of
the inputs on the power strip. Sounds pretty simple but I don't
want to fry anything either.
You have any thoughts or can you direct me to a source where an
electrically challenged guy like me can learn? Our home has a
generator option but it plugs into a large control box that allows
me to shut out the commercial power when we use the generator.
Thanks for your help.
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New HB owners in northern California. She's old but still floats (the boat)
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12/23/2007 04:47:47 PM
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Super moderator
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/18/2002
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STOP DON'T DO ANYTHING. You don't have any expertise in this and your discription of your present set up is iffy.
In this case you REALLY need to get expert help. We can give guidance on this board on specific items, but you need YOUR WHOLE SYSTEM looked at
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
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12/23/2007 05:45:57 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Have to agree with OHB. What you have sounds dangerous; adding a generator to it could make it deadly. The least that could happen is you'll probably fry the inverter. The worst.....
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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12/23/2007 06:04:24 PM
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mont1340
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 12/20/2007
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Wow...thanks for the input. The advise from the prior owner sounded
a bit too simple. This type of system is pretty common out here in
California. People run the solar array into the battery system,
then into the inverter. From there they take it into the boat via
some form of power strip or system. It does work in its current
form. That's about all I know about it.
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New HB owners in northern California. She's old but still floats (the boat)
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12/23/2007 06:45:23 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Running the solar panels to the battery is normal, and using an inverter to power the AC side of the boat is OK too... but running it all through a power strip sounds a bit shaky to me. Plugging the generator into the power strip sounds even more so.
If you have both of them hooked up at the same time the inverter will fizzle.
Normally everything is wired so it goes through your boat's distribution panels, AC or DC as appropriate with corresponding switches and breakers.
If you're not familiar with boat electrics find someone who is. DC carries enough amps to start a fire, and AC can be deadly.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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12/23/2007 08:12:25 PM
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Birdman
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 05/13/2007
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All the previous advise is correct. You are dealing with loss of the boat, your life and the lives of others. The romex wiring mention by you if a solid wire line used in your house is not approved for marine installations.
Please contact a marine electrician and/or a marine generator installer for further advise.
Birdman
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2005 Stardust 18 X 78 on Green River Lake Ky
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12/23/2007 10:23:36 PM
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mont1340
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 12/20/2007
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I appreciate the input guys. I'll do the research and seek
electrical help. I do know that many of the houseboats around here
are kinda low budget so I'm not surprised that this kind of system
is being used. We sure don't want to go up in a puff of smoke.
Budget is an issue for us like some so we'll do the homework.
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New HB owners in northern California. She's old but still floats (the boat)
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12/24/2007 05:45:18 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Quality wire gets expensive; and you'll need a lot of it.
You can get marine-grade wire from: http://genuinedealz.com for about the price of Romex at Home Depot...
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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12/24/2007 06:13:43 AM
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LongJohn
Member
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/13/2004
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I did pretty well here; http://bestboatwire.com
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Harbor Master 47 Watts Bar Lake - TN River
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12/24/2007 09:08:28 AM
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mont1340
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 12/20/2007
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I'll have to look closer. The marine grade wiring may be what we
have. I just looks similar to Romex. This boat was redone back in
2000 and I'm confirming what was done to it then. Thanks again for
the advise...all is appreciated.
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New HB owners in northern California. She's old but still floats (the boat)
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12/24/2007 09:55:34 AM
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tomdupre
Junior Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 08/28/2007
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I have to agree with all the advice given. Not knowing how your intended use and power needs on and off the hook will be and how the boat is wired(shore power / present inverter /with or without shorepower switch/will new genset be a passthru/with charger /size of gen set required/ size of present inverter etc... To give advice with out all the information needed would surely not be in your best interest.( We install and service gensets and realize the need of some people have to do some of ther own work to enjoy life on the water as we do) That being said, do your home work,find out what you require installed and what you have now to work and resummit I am sure there is enough good info available as long as you furnish the board with enough INFO. Good luck. Tom (ALBATROSS Marine Works)
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Been there and done that Still here ...and doing that
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12/24/2007 01:50:30 PM
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mont1340
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 12/20/2007
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My thought was to purchase one of those Honda 2000's. Pretty simple
and would run the small bit of stuff (lights, pump, CD player) that
the boat has. Just had another fellow tell me that he simply
unplugs his power strip from the top of the inverter, leaves the
inverter off and connects his generator (small one) directly to the
power strip. According to him, he and many others he knows have
been doing the same thing for years with no problems. It would be
the same as me plugging a generator into any plug on my home and
running the system. The Honda 2000 has a built in inverter to
assure you don't overload the system.
I know lots of people on this forum have very sophisticated systems
and obviously the need for them. Our needs are very simple and
center around a few electrical needs plus the need to charge our
four batteries when the sun isn't out enough. A single panel with a
1750 inverter would do us normally.
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New HB owners in northern California. She's old but still floats (the boat)
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12/24/2007 08:36:15 PM
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Ike
Admiral
Posts: 264
Joined: 07/24/2006
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First off, you never plug a generator into a power strip. You plug a power strip into a generator. The differemce is more than semantics. Also directly tying a generator into an existing ac electrical system without a power transfer swtch could cost you your life. If a portale generator is used you should pwoer the piece of equipment directly off the generator.
Your dc power system is fairly conventional, but it you do what you suggest you will end up burning up the power strip and everything connected to it. Here's a link, start reading up on marine electrical systems. It stats with DC and goes on to AC. http://newboatbuilders.com/pages/electricity1.html (it's free)
Also using a portable non-marine generator such as the Honda poses certain risks. Look at http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf
Wire: use only stranded marine copper wire that meets UL 1426. Romex is made for houses. House normally don't move, vibrate, accelerate up and down and side to side and get banged by waves. The number one cause of wire failure on boats is corrosion, the next is vibration and flexing. Solid core will fail under flexing.
You can do what you want safely. The expense won't be as much as you think.
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Ike "Don't tell me I can't. Tell me how I can!" New Boat Builders Home PageMy Boating Safety BlogMy Boat Building News Blog
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12/26/2007 10:12:43 AM
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Skallywag
Member
Posts: 154
Joined: 09/22/2003
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CALIFORNIA?????
Me too. May I make a simple suggestion?
Add more panels to your array, and maybe double your battery bank from 4 batteries to at least 660 ah total. You will only need the genny for anck-up situations. I use the same 2000i Honda, but have never needed it as the solar works great. Of course this all really depends on you demand. I have propane stove and refer, but 12v and 115v lights. Also have TV, stereo and assorted Margarita tools.
If you have Romex, get rid of it!
Skally
Central Valley (Pine Flat Lake)
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Chance Favors The Prepared Mind!
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12/26/2007 07:12:05 PM
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joetil
Admiral
Posts: 293
Joined: 09/10/2006
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I think your idea for the 2000W Honda generator is valid. It's small, quiet, portable, and easy on the budget. Even though we have a 10KW Yanmar diesel genset onboard we carry along a little Kipor (Honda copy by the Chinese) 1000W air cooled generator. We use this instead of the big one when we're anchored out for extended periods when the weather's cool enough not to have to run the air conditioning. It will run about 12 hours on a gallon of gas and it's pretty quiet. We set it on the rear deck so any fumes it produces are blown downwind from us. This little 1000W generator powers the household size reefer in addition to all of the lights and several box fans. It even powers all of the Christmas lights during our frequent holiday night time cruises. The Kipor generator appears to be a direct copy of the Honda and costs about 50% less. They also make a 2000W and a 3500W. I just saw the 1000W for under $500 and the 2000W for about $650 at one of our local RV centers. (Al's Motor Homes in Ft. Pierce, Fl)
Good luck and don't get discouraged from all of the naysayers; they're only trying to keep the rest of us from doing (more) dumb things.
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joetil
50x15 Burns-Craft in South Fla
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