01/17/2010 04:13:16 PM
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n36511
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: 05/16/2007
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As I go thru the boat and replace various things I am trying to switch out as many things with 12v as possible to reduce the reliance on generator power. Would love to hear from any of you that have good and bad experience with various 12v appliance models (coffee maker, blender, can opener, refer...etc ) As always, thanks for the input and sharing the knowledge. - Scott
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01/17/2010 10:25:12 PM
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Super moderator
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/18/2002
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You need to look at the trade off between 12 volt appliances and an inverter that can drive your present 120 volt units. The battery capacity requirement is about the same plus about 5% to cover inverter loss.
IMHO 12 volt appliances are a PITA
You will have to rewire if you add a lot of HI DRAW 12 volt units.
Tell us how you make out.
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Edited: 01/17/2010 at 11:30:24 PM by OLD HOUSEBOATER
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01/18/2010 03:23:24 AM
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joetil
Admiral
Posts: 293
Joined: 09/10/2006
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Once more, I have to agree with OHB. In my experience, most 12VDC appliances don't work nearly as well as their 120VAC counterparts and they're a lot more expensive. With a large enough 12VDC battery bank and in inverter, you can use standard appliances and get the superior performance at a lower price. And...you won't have to rewire your boat for 12VDC. Just remember, a 12VDC appliance uses 10 times the amperage as a similar 120VDC appliance. That means the wires have to be a lot heavier to handle the loads.
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joetil
50x15 Burns-Craft in South Fla
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01/18/2010 05:58:33 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Ditto OHB and Joetil. I run my 120v fridge off an inverter, as well as my computer, TV and coffeemaker. The expense of 12v appliances simply wasn't worth it, and in many cases they're not as good as the comparable but cheaper 120v unit. Either way the power comes from the batteries, and at least for me the difference isn't noticeable.
With the higher amperage of 12v comes more heat loss (wasted energy).
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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01/18/2010 07:43:05 AM
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n36511
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: 05/16/2007
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Thanks OHB and others. That makes a lot of sense and I was not aware of the (or thinking about) need for larger cables..... On top of that it looks like the selection of 12v products are very limited. I am specifically looking for a coffee maker and the only ones I can find get really crappy user reviews. I have a 2500 watt inverter (cheap one) and am working on its setup.... but it is not hardwired and I am having to run extension cords thru the boat when I want to use it...... I need to think thru its setup a little more and just haven't taken time to do it  .
Thanks guys
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01/18/2010 09:26:27 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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The little 4-cup coffee makers only draw about 600w and run nicely on an inverter. However that's still a lot of power (nearly 60 amps) out of the batteries, so remember to turn it off when coffee is made.
A stove-top percolator works great if you have a propane stove, and it doesn't draw ANY power.
Sometimes the easiest way to install an inverter is to install a couple dedicated outlets; that are ONLY on the inverter. Maybe one in the galley and one by the TV... Then it's a matter of unplugging the device from one outlet and plugging it into the other. Pretty near idiot-proof, too. Wiring up transfer switches can get complicated, expensive, and if done wrong will blow your inverter (done that).
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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01/18/2010 02:08:00 PM
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Bamby
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 07/30/2008
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Just a thought here about the coffee situation. That's the biggest single thing we went round about on our boating weekends. We finally found something that really proved to work out well for us. We purchased whats commonly called a coffee press and once we found the right grind coffee, we've never looked back. Just put enough water in a teakettle on the stove to make the first batch in the morning, turn on the stove and in a few minutes the waters boiling and enjoying fresh coffee. And it's actually better than our home coffee pot makes.
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Respect Our Outdoor Recreational Resources
Leaving Only "Footprints in the Sand"
2003 5.3 Chevy P/U
1972 35' Crest Pontoon Houseboat
2007 90 hp. Yamaha
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01/18/2010 06:29:15 PM
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klandersnitrox
Admiral
Posts: 291
Joined: 07/01/2003
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For us the challenge has always been about
- The Stove
- The Microwave
- Any Heater
So our choice is to always to move things around to deal with them or move to another circuit
I would love to hear a discussion of efficient appliances that are effective in any of these areas
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Nitrox 2005 16x68 Summerset Houseboat
Lake Lanier, Ga
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01/18/2010 06:52:26 PM
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n36511
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: 05/16/2007
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Keith,
Stop by the boat and I will show you what we use for indoor heater... its propane and very efficient. As for the microwave, I have found that I can run mine off the inverter..... odd thing is that the coffee pot will not. It is digital and when plugged into the inverter will not even show the digital display (not even in brew mode)... plug it into shore power and it lights right up.... I may need to switch to the old manual switch kind .
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01/18/2010 06:59:09 PM
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n36511
Member
Posts: 66
Joined: 05/16/2007
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stmbtwle...... you know the percolator is probably the best option.... I already have a propane eye on the grill........ that would take care of any issues with the coffee..... see.... another problem solved!!! perfect! Thanks
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01/18/2010 07:14:43 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Along with the percolator (or teakettle) you want a large Thermos. Pour the first cups and put the rest in the Thermos.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
Edited: 01/18/2010 at 07:17:54 PM by stmbtwle
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01/18/2010 07:19:41 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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n36511, Some inverters have a power-save mode where they're not running until they sense a load. Possibly the digital display by itself does not draw enough to sense. Try turning on another small load on at the same time you use the coffee pot. That should kick the inverter "on" and the coffeemaker should work.
Another alternative is one of these: http://www.coleman.com/coleman...ducts/5453A700_200.JPG
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
Edited: 01/19/2010 at 04:52:12 AM by stmbtwle
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01/19/2010 06:45:15 AM
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klandersnitrox
Admiral
Posts: 291
Joined: 07/01/2003
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Cool,
We actually can run our Microwave off the inverter also but our challenge is I am blowing circuits when we are ON shore power.
I am sure it has nothing to do with all the LCD TV's
Will drop by for a discussion
Originally posted by: n36511
Keith,
Stop by the boat and I will show you what we use for indoor heater... its propane and very efficient. As for the microwave, I have found that I can run mine off the inverter..... odd thing is that the coffee pot will not. It is digital and when plugged into the inverter will not even show the digital display (not even in brew mode)... plug it into shore power and it lights right up.... I may need to switch to the old manual switch kind ![]() .
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Nitrox 2005 16x68 Summerset Houseboat Lake Lanier, Ga
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01/24/2010 07:02:10 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Anything intended to make heat is not going to frugal with the amps. You can get more efficient with digital displays and careful use, but heating anything takes power, pure and simple.
one BTU takes 3.412 watt hours any way you want to look at it : http://www.unitconversion.org/...us-it-conversion.html
A smaller less powerful device will take less amps, but it'll run longer to do the same job and the end result (amp-hrs) will be about the same.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
Edited: 01/24/2010 at 07:12:37 AM by stmbtwle
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