01/19/2011 01:45:03 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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I want to repower my 43' 1983 C-Yacht Houseboat with one 230 to 260 hp diesel/sterndrive package. The original power was provided by 2 Volvo Penta 260 hp gasoline engines with 280 Outdrives.
I don't need the boat to go fast but would like to be able to cruise in the 8 to 10 knot range.
This fiberglass boat weighs approximately 20,000 pounds and has a V shaped bow with a very flat hull.
A dealer for Steyr Diesel motors told me that after consulting with his team he could not recommend replacing the two motors with a single because it would compromise the handling too much especially when dealing with wind and current in a docking situation.
Will the addition of a bow thruster to the single engine propulsion give me sufficient control ? He was reluctant to accept that as a solution.
As much as I would love to replace both engines with 2 diesels the cost is prohibitive for my budget. I will be doing the fiberglass and engine bed work myself so the cost of the labor to make this switch is not a factor.
Can I get some help from the members on this question?
Thanks,
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/19/2011 03:49:48 PM
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CaptMark
Member
Posts: 174
Joined: 07/23/2007
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Depends where and what kind of boating you do. Ocean? Rivers? Lakes? Depends what that boat is worth.
At our marina on the lake I've seen several guys patch the thru-hull holes and hang an outboard on back.
I have a 42' pontoon style that I push around with a 50 HP outboard. I can get it up to around 7 knots wide open. But I usually run just above idle at around 5 knots and burn 1/3 the gas. I tell everyone I can go anywhere I want on the lake, just not very fast.
I have no trouble manuvering or docking as long as I don't try a tight manuver in a strong crosswind.
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Mark
1979 Crest
Brookville Lake, IN
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01/19/2011 04:55:14 PM
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Bamby
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 07/30/2008
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Here's a question I proposed to the board here a while back that's relevant to your question... http://www.houseboatmagazine.c...=13361&highlight_key=y
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Respect Our Outdoor Recreational Resources Leaving Only "Footprints in the Sand" 2003 5.3 Chevy P/U 1972 35' Crest Pontoon Houseboat 2007 90 hp. Yamaha
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01/20/2011 08:11:28 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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I do quite nicely with a single 120 hp diesel. Boat is only 35' but heavy at 18000#. Cruise 6k.
Personally I think 250 hp is a bad choice. Probably not enough to plane but way more than you need for displacement cruising. Everyone says "8 to 10" knots; however you'll really be pushing a wake at that speed, and probably NOT fuel efficient. I think a 7k cruise might be about right for 43', and my guess is 150 hp is all you need for that, and maybe less. A lot of older boats have been converted to outboards.
A lot of us do quite well with singles, but if you want maneuverability or redundancy you have to go with twins. Try running your boat for a while on one engine; just to get a feel for it.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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01/20/2011 10:11:57 AM
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Super moderator
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/18/2002
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A single will give you 7/8 MPH. At slow speeds it will be a wandering bear. You will be a better operator when you learn to handle it.
The experts gave you good advice I agree with them 100%.
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
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01/20/2011 11:26:09 AM
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clarencio5
Admiral
Posts: 229
Joined: 09/03/2006
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As far as speed goes-----I could get almost 16MPH on my single Merc
165 I/O,
mounted on my 43 ft. really flat bottomed houseboat. (only
drew 8 inches)
Maneuverability is more important than speed to me, in which, you
will want 2 engines.
Take your choice---it is that simple.
clarencio
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01/20/2011 02:24:21 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Capt. Mark,
I will be cruising on the coast and rivers.
I am completely rebuilding the boat and Susan and I will be living aboard in 3 years or so.
I bought the boat out of the water and have never operated it. Your performance with a 50 HP outboard is helpful.
Thanks.
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/20/2011 02:26:17 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Bamby,
It was your post that got me thinking about using one I/O instead of 2.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/20/2011 02:46:39 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Willie,
I won't have the option of running the boat on one engine since the original engines don't run and I have removed them already.
Your insight into the right cruising speed for this vessel is the just what I need to help me make a decision.
Do you have an estimate as to what horsepower and speed the boat would need to reach a plane?
I would like to achieve the best horsepower to speed ratio for the best fuel efficiency. However it would be nice to have some reserve power for emergency situations.
I will be installing at least a bow thruster to help maneuverability and would also add a stern thruster if I found I needed it.
Thanks for the help. It is very much appreciated.
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/20/2011 03:09:08 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Old Houseboater,
Are you saying you agree with the Steyr Diesel people who told me to stick with 2 engines?
Do you feel that handling underway at cruise and not just docking will be worse with a single?
Thanks for posting,
Wado
Clarencio,
Do you have twin 165 I/O's on your 43'? How heavy is it?
When you say that maneuverability is more important to you, are you referring to slow speed docking or underway?
What do you think about adding thrusters to compensate for just having one engine?
Thanks for weighing in, I appreciate the help
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/20/2011 07:18:00 PM
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FranticallyRelaxing
Admiral
Posts: 370
Joined: 09/10/2006
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I've seen more than one 50'er on Lake Powell with only one engine.
As for 'pushing a wake', if his hull is as flat as ours is, there'll be no wake. Our boat weighs over 40,000#, and here's it's wake at full blast, 9.5 mph:
I'm powered by a pair of Merc 120hp 4-bangers, with 9x16 props. Not a lot of bite with a 9" pitch prop, which can make maneuvering in a windy harbor a bit tricky. While a single 260 diesel may sound like a bit much, it can be propped steep enough to help with the low speed handling (I would think)
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 1988 SkipperLiner 53x14 1995 Tracker Party Cruiser 32 *for sale* 2003 Chaparral 260 SSI 2000 Allegro Bus 40' DP
Edited: 01/20/2011 at 07:22:30 PM by FranticallyRelaxing
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01/21/2011 08:36:58 AM
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
Super moderator
Posts: 1520
Joined: 10/18/2002
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Handling at cruise is not a problem with a single. Handling at slow speeds is a b***h with a single and a thruster is only good when docking. If you can learn to handle the boat at low speeds with a single you will be good enough to not need a thruster.
A single out drive on a 43 footer is a learning experience, but you will be a better boater when you learn to handle it. Forget the thruster. Just practice until you get it right.
Many rental boats hang a 90HP outboard. In some cases rental personell get the renter out of the harbor and back in.
However, twins are the prefered way to go.
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
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01/21/2011 08:46:35 AM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Mr. Frantic,
Now that's what I'm talking about right there!
240hp, 53x14, 40,000 lbs and WO 9.5 mph!
It would seem to me that 240hp pushing 20,000 lbs would give me more than enough power to cruise in the 7 to 10 mph range and have some reserve power if ever needed. And judging by the previous posts I could probably get decent performance with 200hp or less.
The interesting thing that I found talking to the sales person from Steyr Motors is that their 4 cyl 174hp model retails for $21,080 and their 6 cyl 236hp model retails for $21,897. That's just the engine.
The 236 with a new Bravo III sterndrive retails for $35,115.
I am still waiting on pricing from Cummins Mercruiser Diesel.
I could get 2 Brand new Mercruiser 220hp, 4.3 L MPI Seacore , Bravo III with 3 year warranties for $23,000.
So maybe I should rethink this diesel infatuation. (I grew up lobstering with my dad in his Diesel powered 32' Jonesport) I definitely know I will not need to put in the V-8's to get decent performance based on the feedback here and in Bamby's post awhile back.
Thanks again for all the help.
I've always said that "The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know"
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
Edited: 01/22/2011 at 10:12:07 AM by Djwade
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01/21/2011 08:50:35 AM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Old Houseboater,
I definitely am leaning back to staying with the twins. Now I need to decide how big. I would appreciate your thoughts on total horsepower needed.
Thanks,
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/21/2011 11:57:16 AM
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clarencio5
Admiral
Posts: 229
Joined: 09/03/2006
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Quit worrying about Horsepower---unless you intend to race the
darn boat.
clarencio
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01/21/2011 01:48:54 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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At 21k a pop I can see why they want to sell you TWO of them plus installation. It's your money but unless you're into towing water skiers I'd stick with the single (half as much to fix). 236 hp should kick you along nicely, and you don't HAVE to run it WOT. Admittedly twins steer better at low speed but realize they have TWICE the "rudder" area. You can overcome that with practice, and for the price of that extra rudder you can buy a whole lot of practice fuel!!!
My guess the hp required for a comfortable plane is probably about what the boat had originally. My little 35 had 450 hp; now I'm quite happy with 120, with plenty left over (but I'm not into water skiing either).
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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01/21/2011 02:26:52 PM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Willie,
You would think in these times that they would be happy to sell me one but I guess they are used to dealing with people with a lot fatter wallets.
I am still waiting to hear back from Cummins Mercruiser. I'll be interested to see what they say.
I'm learning a lot.
Thanks,
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
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01/21/2011 07:15:17 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Also bear in mind that there are a lot of boats your size running around with maybe a 100hp outboard. It's a valid option.
Looking at your blog I see you're looking at water tanks... I installed 4 55gal plastic juice drums for water tanks. Cost $15 each...
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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01/21/2011 11:47:09 PM
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FranticallyRelaxing
Admiral
Posts: 370
Joined: 09/10/2006
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Wado, I do know that Merc is putting carbed AND injected versions of the 4-bangers in new boats (small Bayliners & such), I'm pretty sure you should be able to find a pair of new ones? -- and if you do, I'll bet you'll save at least 1/3 over the cost of the V6's... And FWIW, with my 16x9 props, I cruise at 7 mph at 3000 rpm, and my gas mileage is between 1.5 and 2+ mpg depending on wind. Also FWIW, mine are 23 year old carbed 120hp 4's, the new ones are 135 and I'm sure they'd be better on gas than mine. They don't weigh much, don't eat up much space...
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1988 SkipperLiner 53x14 1995 Tracker Party Cruiser 32 *for sale* 2003 Chaparral 260 SSI 2000 Allegro Bus 40' DP
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01/22/2011 09:54:06 AM
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Djwade
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: 12/25/2006
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Willie,
I ended up making my own tank with plywood and Sani-tred. It really came out great and it uses space that was wasted before. I like your solution and my thought is to add one of those as additional capacity.
Here's a couple of pics of the tank under construction.
Wado
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Wado the Maineiac 1983 43' C Yacht http://www.musbenice.com/ http://blog.musbenice.com/"Find something you like to do and do it as much as you can."
Click for full image
Click for full image
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