05/29/2012 05:43:21 PM
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DaleHollow
Admiral
Posts: 606
Joined: 06/27/2007
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those of you that use the Honda 2000 (small portable unit which u sit on the bank) to run the frig fans tv etc.
One of the steps i have to take is on my xantrax inverters, I have to go to my remote control panel for the inverter, lower the incoming amps down to 5, to keep from overloading the gen.
Am I correct in assuming that while the small honda powering certain outlets some of this power is being sent to the inverter/charger and charging the inverter bank?
once I get a good understanding of my remote panel functions led's I will have a better understanding of whats going on
(I think there is an argument to be made on cost issue of fuel for a 2000 honda)
FYI:added info we used a free standing Sams club AC unit, on a seperate Honda 2000,
92 plus outside temp I was impressed.....Not quite a plug an play deal but doable
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"Come OOON Back............
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05/30/2012 09:01:01 AM
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EastTNBoater
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/27/2002
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My boat is wired with a separate automatic switch that will flip from whatever AC input I am using (shore or generator) to the inverter/charger. Because it is wired this way, I have a breaker that I can flip to isolate the 110v AC input to the inverter/charger. So, if I were to wire up a small generator, I could flip the breaker and keep it from trying to charge the inverter batteries.
If you do not have the separate automatic switch, then you are relying on the automatic switching in the inverter/charger itself. In that case, you will have to do what you are doing and try to turn off the charging at the inverter/charger control panel.
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05/31/2012 06:48:48 AM
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DaleHollow
Admiral
Posts: 606
Joined: 06/27/2007
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Originally posted by: EastTNBoater
My boat is wired with a separate automatic switch that will flip from whatever AC input I am using (shore or generator) to the inverter/charger. Because it is wired this way, I have a breaker that I can flip to isolate the 110v AC input to the inverter/charger. So, if I were to wire up a small generator, I could flip the breaker and keep it from trying to charge the inverter batteries.
If you do not have the separate automatic switch, then you are relying on the automatic switching in the inverter/charger itself. In that case, you will have to do what you are doing and try to turn off the charging at the inverter/charger control panel.
the small gen is same as shore power, incoming connects same outlet as when docked.
so if the inverter is turned on it sees incoming ac off the Honda,
on my remote control panel for the inverter I have to adjust the incoming amps down to lowest possible number to get some feed for charging.
there in lies the question who shuts off the inverter an doesnt try to draw charge,
an just uses the Honda for running the boat.
curious who else may us a similar set up w/small gen to cut down on the BIG gen.
this past holiday wk end the little gen ran 0/60 hours the big gen run time was cut back from a normal 30 hours total to less than 6.....fuel savings of more than
$100.00, 10 wk ends pay for the gen.....
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"Come OOON Back............
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05/31/2012 08:59:33 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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I think the issue is not the generator but the load. You have to manage the load to something the generator can handle, which means you'll have to turn something off. It doesn't have to be the inverter.
On my boat I rigged a relay between the AC and the water heater so they could not run at the same time. When the thermostat calls for the AC compressor the water heater gets turned off, and when the AC compressor cycles off the water heater comes on again. The system evens out the load and reduces the "spikes" that like to trip circuit breakers. While I use it with shore power, it should work with a generator.
You might be able to do the same thing with your inverter-charger and some other appliance.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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05/31/2012 09:51:53 AM
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EastTNBoater
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/27/2002
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I think that it is the way his boat is wired - which pretty much the standard way that the houseboat manufacturers did it.
I would bet that his inverter is on a 15 or 30 amp circuit off of his main breaker panel. The inverter then powers a sub panel that feeds certain 110v circuits. As long as he has AC power from some source, the inverter will pass that AC through using its internal switches. It will also use any "excess" to charge the batteries. If he does not want his Honda generator to be running under full load most of the time, he has to tell the inverter to only use a minimal amount of AC to charge the batteries - adjusting it down to 5 amps.
If it is wired this way, then he is managing the load the only way he can by adjusting the inverter charging load.
My boat is wired differently with a separate set of automatic switches that select between the type of AC - 220 (shore or gen) or 110 (inverter) and power different circuits based on the input.
Edited: 05/31/2012 at 09:56:44 AM by EastTNBoater
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05/31/2012 10:09:54 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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I've never checked out the wiring on a modern production boat, so I can't say. I wired mine that way so I could run the AC and the water heater BOTH while plugging the boat into a standard 15a outlet. It works too, though if the fridge kicks in the same time as the AC the breaker may still trip. Nowadays I just leave the fridge on the solar, which also charges the batteries.
I'd like to figure out a way to heat water with the waste heat from the AC...
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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05/31/2012 03:20:43 PM
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DaleHollow
Admiral
Posts: 606
Joined: 06/27/2007
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east it looks like u understand what is going on.
I really need to get someone beside me at the remote control panel and explain it.
I dont do the manual expalantion well.
sooner or later someone will land on the dock who understands the process an brake it down to me....I need a xantrax manual for dummies.
my remote will allow me to shut the inverter off, letting all the shore power what ever form it is to go straight to the breaker box.
what my goal is...to send some of the output from the small honda to the charging side of the inverter, the balance to frig, fans tv
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"Come OOON Back............
Edited: 05/31/2012 at 03:26:05 PM by DaleHollow
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06/01/2012 06:31:06 AM
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EastTNBoater
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/27/2002
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No matter what your setting, the charger side of your inverter/charger should only use the "excess". Let's say that your Honda generator puts out 15a. If nothing else is running, then the charger should use all 15a. If you have 10a worth of other stuff (TV, lights, fridge ...) running, then it should only use 5a. It should adjust the amount allocated to charging up and down automatically. The question is does it adjust quickly enough so that the other stuff (TV, lights, fridge, ...) work OK. Based on your other post, I think that you have eight 6v batteries for the inverter. Putting 5a into them hardly seems worth the effort. I would see if you can turn the charging circuit completely off.
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06/01/2012 07:28:25 AM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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I don't see how the inverter/charger can "sense" how much power is "available" unless the voltage starts to drop. By then the little Honda may have already choked.
Anyway if the charge rate is adjustable, try calling Xantrex tech support while you're at the boat. They should be able to walk you through it. However you'll probably have to READJUST it when you get back to the dock and plug in to shore power. This may turn into a bigger hassle than it's worth.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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06/01/2012 07:57:31 AM
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DaleHollow
Admiral
Posts: 606
Joined: 06/27/2007
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Originally posted by: EastTNBoater
No matter what your setting, the charger side of your inverter/charger should only use the "excess". Let's say that your Honda generator puts out 15a. If nothing else is running, then the charger should use all 15a. If you have 10a worth of other stuff (TV, lights, fridge ...) running, then it should only use 5a. It should adjust the amount allocated to charging up and down automatically. The question is does it adjust quickly enough so that the other stuff (TV, lights, fridge, ...) work OK. Based on your other post, I think that you have eight 6v batteries for the inverter. Putting 5a into them hardly seems worth the effort. I would see if you can turn the charging circuit completely off.
I agree and thats to the point of the question, with so little trickling back in,
at 5 amps....I know the original idea of the small Honda was run the frig/tv/fans,
as usual I try to push the envelope. doing more damage by drawing invert batts to low.
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"Come OOON Back............
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06/01/2012 08:04:03 AM
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DaleHollow
Admiral
Posts: 606
Joined: 06/27/2007
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Originally posted by: EastTNBoater
No matter what your setting, the charger side of your inverter/charger should only use the "excess". Let's say that your Honda generator puts out 15a. If nothing else is running, then the charger should use all 15a. If you have 10a worth of other stuff (TV, lights, fridge ...) running, then it should only use 5a. It should adjust the amount allocated to charging up and down automatically. The question is does it adjust quickly enough so that the other stuff (TV, lights, fridge, ...) work OK. Based on your other post, I think that you have eight 6v batteries for the inverter. Putting 5a into them hardly seems worth the effort. I would see if you can turn the charging circuit completely off.
reread the above: as I understand my unit, perhaps incorrectly, at the remote control panel, one option is to regulate the incoming amps, high end is 30 amps in down to 5 amps in, when we first started the Honda if that setting was above a certain setting the Honda would shut down......
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"Come OOON Back............
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06/01/2012 11:14:47 AM
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GoVols
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 08/08/2011
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My Xantrax's menu system has a "charge rate" for the inverter. To lighten the load on my generator when off shore power, I can set it to charge as low as 10% rate or even turn off the charger altogether. If I'm in a huge hurry to charge the batteries, I can set it at 100% rate, at which point you can really hear the thing buzzing!
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16x66 Sailabration on Percy Priest Lake near Nashville.
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06/01/2012 12:50:47 PM
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EastTNBoater
Admiral
Posts: 226
Joined: 11/27/2002
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I have a Trace. When the inverter is running, the control panel shows how many amps are being consumed. When the charger is running (when we have an AC source), it shows how many amps are being put back into the battery bank.
I can set the max bulk charge amperage. I have it set to the highest setting. It will only do that if it has a really clean source of incoming AC. Like GoVols, you can tell because the fans kick in and it really sings.
I don't know how it works, but I can see the charge rate fluctuate as other demand kicks in and out.
I would probably just turn the inverter off. Remove it from the equation. Of course if you run out of gas in the Honda while watching the TV you might miss something while you refuel.
Edited: 06/01/2012 at 12:52:28 PM by EastTNBoater
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06/01/2012 04:30:57 PM
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stmbtwle
Admiral
Posts: 2142
Joined: 04/22/2003
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Running the Honda at max output all the time might mean you'll be replacing it soon. Most equipment is not designed to run at 100% full time.
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Willie She's a tired old barge but she's paid for! http://s71.photobucket.com/alb...p;current=ef324993.pbw
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