I looked at a Gibson today for the first time; a 2003 41 Classic. It has been kept in saltwater all its life but I'm not too concerned about that since it appears to have been very well maintained. The broker didn't know much about the boat and wasn't much help so I walked away with a lot of unanswered questions I was hoping you guys could help me on.

There appears to only be two access hatches to the bilges inside the cabin; one in the aft stateroom and one just oustide the door to the forward head at the bottom of the stairs. Both of these bilge areas had standing water in them. Is this something to be concerned about? Where could the water have come from? I can understand a little water in the engine room but why in these areas?

It looked like the waste and freshwater tanks were near the aft access hatch. How in the heck do you service these tanks with them being buried under the floor with no access hatches directly above them?

Does the forward head have its own waste tank? I didn't see any plubming that lead to the aft holding tank, however I could not find a forward holding tank so I'm puzzled as to where the waste from the forward toilet ends up.

The fridge appeared to be AC only... is this typical? The boat has an 8.5kw genset so running isn't an issue however I was expecting a dual voltage fridge so we wouldn't have to run the genset when we're anchored at the beach all weekend.

There's a round port inside, and on the bottom of, the forward anchor locker. I unscrewed it and there appeared to be water down there. How is this water pumped out? Is it connected to the bilge near the forward head inside the cabin? If so that might explain the standing water in this area inside the cabin that I mentioned earlier.

As you can see I am very puzzled by the layout under the floor. I'm having visions of tearing out the floor to access something, not to mention I can't monitor much of the dark damp bilge, and this scares the hell out of me.

Any insight to my above concerns would be GREATLY appreciated!

Standing water in bilges in Gibsons is not the norm.

Tank removal in most houseboats usually requires removal of floor panels and sometimes cabinetry. However this is pretty rare.

Your concerns are valid.

Many boats of the era and earlier were equipped with 120volt appliances. It was normal to start the genny at the start of the cruise and run it 100%. You have to run the genny for air conditioning and this keeps the frige cold also. An inexpensive inverter and extra battery capacity will address your fridge requirements.

Bigger concerns would be the salt water issue. MOST houseboats are built for fresh water use.

Are the engines fresh water cooled? what is the condition of the risers and elbows.

Is the boat under cover or in the open. (a boat stored out side ages 5 times faster than one berthed in a covered slip)

Your profile doesn't tell where you are located. Boats from different parts of the country age at different rates and have different problems that are location influenced.

-------------------------
OLD HOUSEBOATER

I'm in MA and I boat in freshwater.

It's uncovered; covered houseboat slips are pretty much nonexistent in the North East.

Broker didn't know if risers and elbows were replaced recently but it was one of my questions. He's supposed to get back to me with an answer.

Engines are RWC. I realize this is a highly debated topic.

Why do you say most houseboats are built only for FW?

Most houseboats are designed for "Protected Waters". By and large these types of waters are fresh. It costs a significant amount more to install fresh water cooling and salt friendly fittings, winches etc.

Personally I would price in engine replacements in a raw water cooled houseboat that had been in salt water.

Since this is a raw water cooled unit include manifolds in your questions. Make a close check of the oil pans because they can rust out. Be very cautious as engine replacements are costly.

-------------------------
OLD HOUSEBOATER

Edited: 07/10/2012 at 01:22:38 PM by OLD HOUSEBOATER

Thanks Rick. I was able to understand everything you said and it pretty much confirms my gut feelings that this boat might have some hidden issues that could turn into a mess. I've all but decided to pass on this boat.

I appreciate you offering your phone number and I might give you a call if I run across another Gibson that I'm interested in.

Head discharging overboard, really? Wow, that's surprising!

all of ours in our area discharge overboard

-------------------------
1991 gibson 44 executive
454's
norwich,ohio
docked on the good ole ohio river in marietta

OLD:
I trust your advice but didn't understand this part ....relative to what, when you mention " inexspensive batts an invert", to run the frig.... is there such a possibility,
or are you referring to size here, rather than quality

-------------------------
"Come OOON Back............

Rick just to be clear I'm talking about the toilet in the fwd bathroom. I can understand the sinks and showers disharging overboard as that's the norm around here as well, but I just can't believe discharging a toilet overboard would be legal anywhere but international waters.

DH

I said an "inexpensive inverter and extra battery capacity".

A 1000 watt inverter and extra battery capacity is not expensive in the overall scheme of things. Many people would consider the addition of some inverter capability desireable. the poster was from the north and has less need for airconditioning than most of us.

This suggestion would have addressed his issue with minimal cost.

-------------------------
OLD HOUSEBOATER

Boats that have the capability of discharging overboard must be locked or made inoperable in our neck of the woods ore plan on paying a large fine if you get caught.

-------------------------

• 1978 57' Carlcraft w/twin 454 350hp Crusaders V-drives
  
  
• 1984 26' Sleekcraft, 502 BBC, 525hp
  
  
• Realtime Weather Aboard The Bama Breeze

It is legal in many waters, IF you have a sanitation device.

-------------------------
1977 58' Aluminum Sumerset
Kentucky Lake

Be careful. Many areas in Mass. are no discharge zones, and right next door, all of Rhode Island is a no discharge zone. For a list see http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/vwd/vsdnozone.cfm

-------------------------
Ike
"Don't tell me I can't. Tell me how I can!"
New Boat Builders Home Page
My Boating Safety Blog
My Boat Building News Blog

So, explain "sanitation device"--- I read somewhere (?) that a macerator is supposed to be a 'sanitation device'... Is it?

-------------------------

1988 SkipperLiner 53x14
1995 Tracker Party Cruiser 32 *for sale*
2003 Chaparral 260 SSI
2000 Allegro Bus 40' DP

well, in our area(muskingum and ohio river) it says"treated sewage can be discharged overboard. they consider the macerater as being treated. we've all been checked and approved by the coast guard

-------------------------
1991 gibson 44 executive
454's
norwich,ohio
docked on the good ole ohio river in marietta

Boy are we getting off topic here... Anyway not actually saying you're wrong but in reading this from the ODNR website if you were boarded by them you could be maybe issued a big fat ticket....

Marine Sanitation Device (MSD) On Lake Erie, the Muskingum River and the Ohio River

Vessel Sanitary Systems
(ORC 1547.33)
Except on Lake Erie, the Muskingum River and the Ohio River, no person shall launch, moor, dock, operate or permit to be operated any vessel with a sink, toilet, or sanitary system capable of discharging urine, fecal matter, contents of a chemical commode, kitchen wastes, laundry wastes, slop sink drainage, or other household wastes into the waters in this state. Such a sink, toilet, or sanitary system shall be removed, sealed or made to drain into a tank or reservoir that can be carried or pumped ashore for disposal in an approved sewage treatment works.

All recreational vessels with installed toilet facilities must have an operable MSD on board. Vessels 65 feet and under may use a U.S.Coast Guard certified Type I, II or III MSD. Vessels over 65 feet must install a U.S.Coast Guard certified Type II or III MSD. Coast Guard certified devices are so labeled except for some holding tanks, which are certified by definition under federal regulations.

SPLASH FACT
Types of MSDs

Type III MSD, the simplest and most common, consists of a holding tank. It requires only a small storage space and is simple to operate. Type III MSDs have the least impact on the environment since the waste is to be discharged on shore into a local sewage treatment facility.

Types I and II MSDs are usually found on large vessels. Waste is treated with special chemicals to kill bacteria before the waste is discharged. Types I and II MSDs with "Y" valves that direct the waste overboard must be secured so that the valve cannot be open for discharge into the water. This can be done by placing a lock or non-usable seal on the "Y" valve or by taking the handle off the "Y" valve.

SPLASH FACT
Keep Our Waterways Clean From Sewage

Boat sewage dumped into Ohio waters may affect aquatic plants, fish and other animals. The nutrients, microorganisms and chemicals contained in human waste from boats have a negative impact on coastal and inland waters, particularly in sheltered or shallow areas not naturally flushed by tide or current.

Sewage contains nutrients that fertilize algae in the water. This can make algae grow out of control, reducing the amount of light which reaches underwater grasses. Algae can also settle on the grass, smothering it. These grasses provide nursery areas for young fish and help prevent shoreline erosion. Flow-through treatment devices (Type I or II MSDs) reduce bacteria in the sewage but do not reduce the nutrients or organic matter going into the water.

Organic matter in sewage is decomposed in the water by bacteria. During this process, the bacteria use oxygen. As a result, sewage in the water may deplete the water's oxygen level, stressing fish and other aquatic animals that need oxygen to survive.

Microorganisms from a person's digestive system are found in human waste. Once they are in the water, they can pass diseases like hepatitis to people in contact with the water.

Chemical products used in onboard treatment devices, such as chlorine and formaldehyde, can be toxic to marine and estuarine life and could pose a problem in areas where boats congregate and where there is little wave flushing action.


So if I'm reading and interpreting it right dumping may be acceptable under coast guard or federal law but it's superseded and overwritten by Ohio law which states dumping anything other than gray water into the above waterways illegal...

Well it does seem I did interpenetrate "wrong" after more searching.. It appears that in the above rivers if a person grinds it up real well where a person can't recognize it as a turd a person or boater is good to go.. And to think of the times attending the stern-wheeler festival I was swimming at the mouth of the Muskingum with hundreds of full boats upriver spewing their BM into the water. At least I learned something "I'll never ever again swim in areas of high boat congestion". Living yet and still learning.

-------------------------
Respect Our Outdoor Recreational Resources
Leaving Only "Footprints in the Sand"

2003 5.3 Chevy P/U
1972 35' Crest Pontoon Houseboat
2007 90 hp. Yamaha

Edited: 07/20/2012 at 11:56:21 AM by Bamby

i would be more leary of all the summer camps up and down the river than i would the boats. the boats atleast go through a macerator.

-------------------------
1991 gibson 44 executive
454's
norwich,ohio
docked on the good ole ohio river in marietta

A type I or II Msd is supposed to treat the sewage into something you could drink but not me. I think it is much better than the municipalities dumping almost raw sewage into the waters. in Decatur Al we saw floating feces next to the sewage plant. In Rogersville the city said the boats were contaminating the water but on inspection found raw sewage coming out of the city sewer. I think Type I and II treatment devices are the way to go as when you pump out the sewage in most cases it goes to the city sewage plant and right back in the water.

-------------------------
The pirate