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Topic Title: Shore power
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Created On: 06/07/2007 09:17:00 PM
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 06/07/2007 09:17:00 PM
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graybear
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Just got to the boat last weekend for the first time this season. When we arrived the shore power wan not hooked up. So I drug out the cables and hooked it up. There are 2 - 30 amp connections on the boat and on the dock. We were in the same slip last year and simply hooked up both cables and everything was good. However, when I hooked them up this year I had nothing. When the dock breakers were reset, the on board breakers would blow and vice versa. Tried unhooking one cable and reseting everything and everything worked. With a single cable hooked up to either shore 1 or shore 2 and in either side of the dock pedestal, everything worked. But as soon as both cables were hooked up the breakers would blow. The mechanic from the marina spent considerable time (and my money) determining that there were no circuits on the boat that were shorted to ground.

I had assumed that each part of the system ran a different part of the boat electrical system. But the appear to run it all from either side.

Have any of you ever encountered this problem?

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Graybear
'88 Holiday Mansion aft cabin 38 ft
twin Volvo duo-props 350 engines
Flaming Gorge, UT
 06/07/2007 09:34:41 PM
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BrokerDave
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Too far back to remember the fine details but the one I saw do that was in the shore cord..

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Boatless at the moment
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 06/08/2007 06:40:02 PM
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Ike
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I was going to say the same thing. The circuits on the boat for each cord are (or should be) separate. So this tells me that when you hook up both cords and the breaker blows, the fault is on the shore side.  Check out the cords to eliminate any problem there. Then get the marina to check their system.



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Ike
"Don't tell me I can't. Tell me how I can!"
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Edited: 06/08/2007 at 06:41:23 PM by Ike
 06/09/2007 05:46:17 PM
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graybear
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Ike,

The thing that blows my mind is that I can use either cable from either side of the pedestal and everything on the boat works as long as I don't hook up both cables. I would have thought that one side would run part of the boat and the other side run the rest of it. The tech at the marina ran one cable (mine) to a "Y" connected to both of the boat inlets and it still worked. But if both cables are connected, the on-board main breakers both blow. If you reset them, both breakers on the pedestal blow. Doesn't make sense to this dumb country boy.

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Graybear
'88 Holiday Mansion aft cabin 38 ft
twin Volvo duo-props 350 engines
Flaming Gorge, UT
 06/09/2007 06:09:09 PM
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OLD HOUSEBOATER
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If you havent changed anything in your boat, or replaced any ends on your shore power cords - the hot and neutral are probably switched on one side of your shore pedistal. use a polarity checker to check everyhing out starting at the shore pedistal.

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OLD HOUSEBOATER
 06/09/2007 08:50:47 PM
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Dave
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Try a different shore pedestal.
 06/11/2007 05:16:46 PM
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abdiver
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Originally posted by: graybear Just got to the boat last weekend for the first time this season. When we arrived the shore power wan not hooked up.



Is this normal, or did someone disconnect  your shore power?

Originally posted by: graybear
I had assumed that each part of the system ran a different part of the boat electrical system. But the appear to run it all from either side. Have any of you ever encountered this problem?


Normally, that is the case. It is common to have the A/C on one circuit and everything else on the other.  

On the dock side, it is common for the power to be distributed as 220 volt, dual phase.  WIth this setup either "hot" to neutral provides 110 volt and "hot to hot" provides 220.  To keep the load balanced and to provide maximum flexibility the two "hot" legs are connected to each of the 30 amp outlets.  Those who have boats that need 220 can buy a Y adapter that plugs into both 110 outlets  and combines it for 220.

If this worked last year then either the dock has been rewired or you boat has.  Clearly, both of your shore power connectors are somehow connected together, either by some intentional action or by something shorting together.  As long as you only plug in one cord everything is fine. But when you plug both in the two "hot" lines fight each other and you have a 220 volt short.

I would say that the mechanic from the marina is NOT an electrician!  You don't have a short to ground, you have a short from Hot to Hot.   Get your boat fixed ASAP!

Rod
 06/11/2007 08:11:42 PM
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alreadygone
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I'll give Rods post a strong second! Hire an electrican(preferably with marine experience) a mechanic isn't gonna cut it.

Bob

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I carry a gun because it's too tiring carrying a cop.
 06/12/2007 05:11:51 AM
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BananaTom
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It appears to me that the problem is in the shore pedestal. Since you were unplugged upon your arival, someone un-plugged you. Maybe some maintence occured during the off season with the replacement of the breakers. Apparently an error of wiring took place. When you were plugged back in during that activity, the breaker tripped. So, the electricians helper just un-plugged you.

This makes sense to me.

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Banana Tom
 06/12/2007 12:51:56 PM
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abdiver
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Originally posted by: BananaTom It appears to me that the problem is in the shore pedestal..



If it used to work and now it doesn't then I would guess that the change was in the "shore pedestal".  That is the problem, however.

There is no way that two 30 amp connectors on the boat should be able to both drive all circuits.  If that is true then if you connect one plug to shore power the male prongs on the other connector will be hot.  If you happen to have the second cord plugged into the boat and its male end laying on the dock its prongs will be hot and just waiting for some unsuspecting person to touch it and electrocute themselves.

The boat wiring needs to be corrected ASAP.

Rod
 06/12/2007 07:23:23 PM
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Ike
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Something is definitely wrong on both sides, the dock and the boat. The ABYC Rule is that there cannot be two sources of power for the same circuit.  So if you have one cord plugged in it can power both circuits,  but if you have two cords plugged in there should be a transfer switch that isolates one circuit from the other.  ABYC rules also say that the neutral (white ) wires shall not be connected on the boat for the two sources of power, so when one power cord is plugged in the neutrals for both circuits are connected, but when two cords are plugged in the neutrals should not be connected. There should be a transfer switch that connects or disconnects the two depending on whether or not both cords are plugged in. I suspect that this switch is defective.  When you plug in one 30 amp cord, it should power every AC circuit on the boat. When you plug in the second power cord the switch should isolate one circuit from the other.  It’s not doing that so the breakers trip. I know I sound repetitive but it’s an important and subtle point.

 

However, as someone else said I also suspect the power outlet on the dock may have the black and white wires switched, in other words the polarity is wrong.  Any competent electrician should have a simple device in his kit that checks polarity.  In fact you can buy one at any hardware store for a few bucks.  You simply plug it into any three prong AC outlet and it has lights that indicate if the polarity is ok or if there are any ground faults in the circuit.

 

You need to have an electrician check out your boat and the dock power. This should be an ABYC certified marine electrician. Any old electrician will not know the differences between shore side and boat wiring.



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Ike
"Don't tell me I can't. Tell me how I can!"
New Boat Builders Home Page
My Boating Safety Blog
My Boat Building News Blog
 06/12/2007 07:47:17 PM
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graybear
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Ike,

I think you are right about the switch thing and I would like to find an electrician here that is marine certified. But all of them that I find here in the desert are rock and sand certified. Is there a directory of marine certified electricians?

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Graybear
'88 Holiday Mansion aft cabin 38 ft
twin Volvo duo-props 350 engines
Flaming Gorge, UT
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