My friend has a 79 Trojan one of the engines will not start, last fall he began to have a performance problem with this engine and we tuned it up. Now it will not start at all here is the run down of what has been done. We sprayed starting fluid in the carb to make sure we were getting fuel. New coil, wire, plugs, cap, rotor, electronic ignition, by passed wire ran to coil from battery, tweaked on the timing a bit, and checked for fire, spark looks a bit weak but not sure why, I believe it is a 231 Chevy motor but not sure. Any Ideals

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1983 Holiday Mansion 38' Baracudda

Can you give me a time line as to when all these things were done with respect to when it ran last?


By chance, has the starter been replaced on this engine since it actually ran last?

It is standard for a dual engine boat to have one engine that rotates the standard rotation and the other engine rotates counter-rotation.  If you didn't compensate for the counter-rotation then things would be so messed up that it wouldn't have a chance to run.

The reason I asked about the starter is that is one of the things that has to be right.  A counter-rotating engine requires a counter-rotating starter.  I have first hand experience with installing the wrong starter.......

Assuming that the starter is cranking the engine the right way I would start by triple checking the firing order.  It will NOT be the same as the other engine!  If this is the counter-rotating engine the firing order that might be cast into the intake manifold probably won't be the correct one.  The best thing to do is to take the valve covers off so you can see the valves operate, take the spark plugs out so you can poke something inside to probe for the piston, then slowly crank the engine over by hand to see which cylinder is coming up on firing position next (both valves closed, piston at TDC).

Once you are sure  the firing order is correct then make sure that you are using the correct timing mark.  Some engines put their timing mark right at the top of the pulley, but some offset the marks and put a pointer off to the side where it is easier to see.  On a counter-rotating engine this offset will be different.  I would expect it to be the mirror image (around center of the engine) of the other engine.

You said that you installed a new electronic ignition:  did this include a distributor?  How the counter-rotating engine handles the distributor varies;  some have a different gear on the camshaft and distributor which makes the rotor turn the same direction but makes it so that the distributor won't interchange with the standard rotation.  Other engines simply let the rotor turn the opposite direction and have the breaker plate and advance mechanism operate the opposite direction.  Bottom line:  if you installed the wrong rotation distributor and/or ignition module things could be really messed  up!

Rod

The engine that is not running is on the starbord side so I belive it to be a normal rotaition. Last spring we installed the retro kit to make it an electronic ignition. Ran the engine all summer. In the fall we started to notice that the engine was not as strong as the other and was loading up, sent the carb to be rebuilt. After we intalled the rebuilt carb WOT was arounf 2300 rpm and the engine still sounded doggie so we put in new plugs,and wires. Ran the boat a few more time last fall with it being a doggie it never back fired just did'nt run the best. The starter has never been replaced. Interesting thought to remember. This spring we de winterized the boat and fire up both engines . Port runs great, starbord ran good at idel but not the best beyond that. my frind called the other day and said now it will not start at all. So I went down and looked at the spark between the coil and also at a plug looks a bit weak So we got a new coil. Did'nt fix it So I ran a wire from the batery to the hot side of the coil. also installed A new cap and rotor. Still did'nt start. took the electronic ignition off the other engine to see if that was the problem these are the kit you buy to take out the points and condinser ans install a magnetic sleeve and sensor( have not replaced the Distributer these are made to fit inplace of the points) I also made sure that the rotor it spinning and not sliping . I was kinda wonder if some how the we have a bad Groung someplace. and that is why we have a weak spark ... Thanks in advace for all the help..

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1983 Holiday Mansion 38' Baracudda

If you have fuel (starting fluid!!) and spark, got to be either timing or compression. Check compression first, then start looking at valve timing as well as ignition timing.

Bob

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I carry a gun because it's too tiring carrying a cop.

Has the sound of restricted exhaust to me. What did it sound like as it got worse? Did the Starboard sound as good as port?

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Boatless at the moment
www.spboatsales.com

So it sounds like a slow death rather than abrupt.

Does the starter crank it over easily, or does it just barely turn?  If the starter labors to turn the engine then I would be concerned that you have lost a crank bearing and now it takes so much torque just to turn the engine that it can't get started.

When you crank the engine with the starter, do you get oil pressure?

I have had hydraulic lifters go bad and cause problems.  In one case the lifter expanded too far and held a valve open all the time.  In another case it collapsed and wouldn't open the valve far enough.  Usually a bad lifter just gets noisy.  It is hard to imagine a failure on all 8 cylinders but it is possible that a stuck intake lifter could mess up the air flow to the other cylinders to the point that it wouldn't run.

 Any signs of water in the oil or other indications of a blown head gasket?

Running a compression check would be a good thing to do.

Broker Dave's comment on a blocked exhaust has a lot of  merit to it.  Perhaps a muskrat made its home in the exhaust pipe.  I would expect it to start and run for a few seconds at least however.  

Rod

Went down to the boat again today ,, checked the firing order it is corect. I belive we suffered a slow death . The coil we replace said to use with external resistor only but I was unable to find one on it any place and the new coil says it has one built in. I ran a new ground to the block from the batery as well as left the old one. When I go bcak after while i will check the exhust for build up ( nice thought).
I hope to check the compression On Saturday. But we have a rule on the dock no work after high noon on the weekends... Just jump on another boat and go .. The port side starts and runs like a dream.

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1983 Holiday Mansion 38' Baracudda

Hi RDK2. I doubt if there is anything serious wrong with the engine. And I'm surprised that the owner isn't at least getting a pop out of it. One wonders if there is something wrong with the carburation. By workng the carburetor linkage you are supposed to see a squirt of raw gas down the throat of the carb. ( engine not cranking, of course--dont want to burn off your hair) Accelerator pumping properly would prove that the carb at least is full of gas.

I have seen cases of spark plug failures---the whole 6 of them. Your friend could try removing all the plugs and setting them on top of the engine with wire attached. They should all show a spark when engine turned over. If not, maybe they were gapped too roughly or simply got defective over the season. I have seen failures of Bosch brand plugs.

Be careful, keep bilges ventilated, we don't want to hear about a big BOOM over there.// Paul

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lookin' for adventure and the next wild engine!