My  wife  and  I  are  the  proud  owners  of  a  1989  Gibson  44'  Standard  with  a  leaky  waste  tank  .  I  have  already  purchased  the  plastic  replacement  tank  from  Gibson  .  It  looks  like  a   big  section  of  the  kitchen  floor  will  have  to  come  out  in  order  to     
remove  the  old aluminum tank  .  I'd  be  grateful  for  any  advice  that  would  help  with  this  project  .  We  bought  the  AquaRock  last  August  ,  if  ignorance  were  bliss  we'd  be  houseboating  saints  !          

First off,,,WELCOME ABOARD!!!

Seem this problem is as common as Gibsons! Has been coevered in previous threads in this forum. Read back a few posts and you'll find quite a lot of pertinent information.

Bob

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I carry a gun because it's too tiring carrying a cop.

I had this problem with my 1995 Gibson 44. the tank is accessed by removing the carpeting in the master bdrm. there is screw down panel of flooring over the water tank. The water tank is removed then the sea cocks followed by the waste tank. I replaced both tanks. the marinia did the job for about $1700. I still haven't gotten the odor out. What I would have done different would have been to clean the hull throughly while the tanks were out.
good luck.

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Mike <BR>lake texoma, 1995 44 gibson standard

Mike,

Rent or even better purchase an "Ozone Generator" as used by smoke damage companies. Our is a {Breeze AT} by EcoQuest corp. We bought it at the Louisville HB show 4-5 years ago and been pleased ever since. Eliminates smoking, gas fumes, paint odor, and everything else we've ever encountered. On the boat as well as at home.

Bob

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I carry a gun because it's too tiring carrying a cop.

Ozone generators used by professional smoke a flood damage companies aren't available to end users...and those that are sold retail are nothing more than VErY expensive air fresheners that are hghly corrosive and damaging to rubber...and the EPA warns against using them. http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.htmlWhen Mike said that his mistake was not cleaning the area before he put the new tank in, he was on the right track...the only thing up for grabs is what he'd used to clean it. Bleach, Lysol, Febreeze etc won't work--and neither will any ozone generator you can buy...but there is a product that will: PureAyre pureayre.com There have been a whole bunch of products available for over a decade that'll eliminate any ORGANiC odor...but PureAyre is the only one I've found that'll eliminate ALL odors...organic, smoke, even diesel. (And btw, I have no connection with any product mfr...my recommendations are solely based on what I know works).As for replacing the tank...$1700 is at least 4x what it would have cost you to roll up your sleeves and do it yourself. Ronco Plastics http://www,ronco-plastics.com makes TOP quality extra thick walled plastic tanks for a very reasonable price and have more than 400 shapes and sizes in their catalog....with that many they have a tank that'll fit. And they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. I HIGHLY recommend 'em. Gaining access to the tank is the hardest part...after that it's just, disconnect the plumbing...remove and replace the tank...reconnect the plumbing. Cost: $200-$500 for a 40-80 gallon tank. And anyone who has even a LITTLE more mechanical ability than it takes to turn a door knob could easily do it themselves. Lake Texoma is a an inland lake...All inland lakes are "no discharge"--holding tank that  can ONLY be emptied by pumpout only..so why would replacing the holding tank involve any thru-hulls/seacocks??

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

He may be keeping his options open in case he decides to take her offshore one day. My 1984 Gibson waste tank is in the same spot and it will require some carpentry work to get access but it can be done with a little ingenuity. You may have to add a nailing strip to your two center stringers to put the floor back down unless you can cut right down the center of the top of the stringers when removing the floor and then you are likely to hit nailheads. Remember, you do not have to take out the entire floor over the tank. Those things are just wedged in with shims on the older models. So a hole that gives enough room to slide it out and the new one in at an angle will do. Suggestion: when you get your hole cut out, wedge up the tank as much as your pumpout hose will flex before disconnecting and have wood plugs ready to seal the hose and tank. Then have heavy sheet plastic to sit it on and carry it out as you will still have that leak to deal with getting out of the boat. Go out the rear window. Do not try to take it up the stairs. Peg is right that it does not take a rocket scientist to do this but some guys are better off paying the man than taking on something their daddy never taught them. My 23 year old original metal tanks are still sound but the only reason is I do not believe the previous owners ever used it. When I got the boat in 2004 someone had removed the Y valve handle, cut the plastic tang off that moves the actual valve and reinstalled. So no matter which way you turned it waste was going overboard. I discovered it when we went to pump out and nothing was in the tank after several weekends. A messy Y valve replacement followed in which I decided to replace all hoses except you could not get to the last two feet of either hose that connected to the tank without cutting up the new kitchen floor I had just laid. So I used connectors to splice those hoses. But sooner or later all metal tanks will leak and I will have to cut up that floor.

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The Judge Rules

peggy, on the Gibson 44ft. the sea cocks and water pump are between the two holding tanks, and part of the bathroom wall is over the waste holding tank. so it has be slid back to the position of the water holding tank to be removed. you will have to cut a hole in front of the waste tank to access connections coming from the forward head. Aquarock if you want I can give the measurement were they accessed mine, also Gibson helped by sending me a diagram the tank positions and size. It was hand drawn but it did help. you should give them a shout.
Oh and the sea cock for waste must be capped off and the hose connection removed for all inland waters.

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Mike <BR>lake texoma, 1995 44 gibson standard

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 04:14:43 PM by MJGT

"the sea cock for waste must be capped off and the hose connection removed for all inland waters.

"Not necessarily true. A few states require it, but in most states, it's enough if the system is secured as prescribed by federal law:

b) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of treated or untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3 or 140.4, the operator must secure each Type I or Type II device in a manner which prevents discharge of treated or untreated sewage.

Acceptable methods of securing the device include—

(1) Closing the seacock and removing the handle;(2) Padlocking the seacock in the closed position;(

3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold the seacock in the closed position; or(4) Locking the door to the space enclosing the toilets with a padlock or door handle key lock.(

c) When operating a vessel on a body of water where the discharge of untreated sewage is prohibited by the Environmental Protection Agency under 40 CFR 140.3, the operator must secure each Type III device in a manner which prevents discharge of sewage. Acceptable methods of securing the device include—

(1) Closing each valve leading to an overboard discharge and removing the handle;

(2) Padlocking each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position; or

(3) Using a non-releasable wire-tie to hold each valve leading to an overboard discharge in the closed position.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

Edited: 08/16/2007 at 07:10:38 PM by peghall

Thanks  to   every   one  for  the  advice  .  
Peggy   -  Your  right  about  the  bleach  water  ,  it  helps  but  does  not  eliminate the  odor  .  I'll  track  down  PureAyre  to   scrub  the  hull  with  after I  remove  the  old  tanks  .  Judge-  Gibson  tells  me  that  I'll  be  able  to  unscrew  a  floor  panel  to  remove  the  tanks  .  I'll have plugs  and  10  mil  poly  at  the  ready  when  the  time  comes  .  
Mike  -  I'd  like   those  measurements  if  you    can  get  them  to  me  (  c-rockel@cpr-products.com  or  Chris  @  1-888-531-8940    

Currently  my  sea cocks    are zipp tied  closed  is  that  legal  for  lake  ozark  in   Missouri?  

If  I  can  make  it  thru  six  more  weeks  with  a  porta-potty  ;  my  plan for  this  fall    is:  
First  weekend  -  remove  floor  coverings  in  both  bathrooms  &  kitchen  ,  access  &  remove  waste  &  water  tanks  then  scrub  hull  .

During  the  work  week  track  down  required  fittings  &  materials  

Second  weekend  -  install  new  tanks  &  replace  plywood.  Then  call  a  local  floor  contractor  to  install  sheet  goods  in  the  kitchen  &  bathrooms  .

Should  be  a  walk  in  the   park!        

Please keep us posted on how that floor panel removal works. I never pulled up the original(I assume they were original) floor tiles to see how the floor was laid. I just tiled over the old floor with those peel and stick tiles and it has held up great. However, as I lay down and stick my head in the access hatch in front of the refrigerator or in the storage area that passes between the galley and cuddy, I cannot see that there was ever any cutout built to get to the tanks. It just looks from the bottom side like they put those tanks in and laid the floor on top of them. I would love to know if I ever rip up the tile that there is an easy access. The trouble with buying an old boat with several previous owners is that you never know what is factory and what is replaced. I always thought there should have been a second access hatch in the galley floor to let me get to those hose connections on the waste tank.

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The Judge Rules


Edited: 09/25/2007 at 10:19:52 AM by TheJudge

Chris, I'll measure it this weekend and get back to you.

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Mike <BR>lake texoma, 1995 44 gibson standard

on mine they cut the access to back of the holding tank 13ft, 6'' from the back wall. don.t go by that measurement it is easy enough to measure the length of the waste tank though the aft access panel. good luck with the project.

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Mike <BR>lake texoma, 1995 44 gibson standard

When I replaced my holding tanks which finally leaked due to the rough fiberglass hull that they sat on wearing through the aluminum, I place thick rubber mats like the ones found in commercial kitchens under and on the sides of the new tanks to give them some protection. Also when removing my tank I bought the biggest poly bags I could find and worked the bags over the tanks before lifting them out.

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• 1978 57' Carlcraft w/twin 454 350hp Crusaders V-drives
  
  
• 1984 26' Sleekcraft, 502 BBC, 525hp
  
  
• Realtime Weather Aboard The Bama Breeze

It's highly unlikely that rough fiberglass wore through your aluminum tank from the
outside...more likely urine ate through it from the inside. Urine is so corrosive that the average life span of of any metal tank is only about 10 years...they typically start to leak at a weld--seam or fitting--within 2-5 years and turn into a colander within about 10 years. If yours was older than that, it's been living on borrowed time.

-------------------------
Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

My  new  tank  is  finally  in  .   I  had  called  Gibson  to  confirm  /  order  the  correct  tank  for  my  boat  ,  their  parts  department  told  me  that  for  my  '89  44'  standard  they  only  used  one  tank  that  was  33"w  by  10"t  by  ?  l  and that  was  a  33"X10"X73"  .  When  I  got  the  floor  cut  out  ,  the  tank  turned  out  to  be  48"  long  ..  The  pantry  wall  extended  half  way  over  the  tank   so  it  had  to  be  cut  in  half  long  ways  to  remove  one  half  at  a time  .  Two  weeks  later  ,  I  got  my  ten  gallon  smaller  custom  tank  in  from  Raritan  .  The  plywood  around  the  floor  joists  that  had  to  be  removed  had  sagged  over  the  last  18  years  so  I  had  a  devil  of  a  time  getting  my  sister  joists  into  place  .  Pure  Ayre  was  not  the  silver  bullet  I  had  hoped  for  but  it  did  work  better  than  bleach  water  .  
     Now that  I'm  done   whining  ,  my  tank  is  in  ,  my  floor  will  be  re laid  by  this  weekend  &  there is  almost  nothing  better  in  this  world  than  having  a  toilet  that  really  works!     

Aquarock
so you where able to do this yourself without pulling the boat out.
Is you refrigerator on the same side as the pantry?
While replacing mine carpet with laminate flooring, I found a cut out behind the fridge for the shower overboard, it was open the space between the hull and wall common with the space around the holding tank. I covered this plywood and duck tape. got a major decrease in the stink.

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Mike <BR>lake texoma, 1995 44 gibson standard

Edited: 10/04/2007 at 12:05:51 PM by MJGT

MJGT my   frig  is  on  the  same  side  as  the  pantry  ,  I  moved  the  frig  to  the  back  bedroom  during  the  repair  .  The  area  behind  the  fri g  is  paneled  but  there  is  an  access  panel  to  get  to  the  shower  faucets  ..  When  I  removed  the  carpet  ,  I  found  a  section  of  floor  that  was  screwed  in  place  instead  of  nailed  .  The  section  wasn't  big  enough  to  use  for  tank  removal  but  did  give  me  a  visual  on  what  would  need  to  be  cut  out  .  

While you are at it, replace the discharge hoses. your nose will greatly appreciate it!