I recently purchased a 1973 32 Burns Craft.  My toilet which is a MSD type I has only a water supply to the top of the bowl.  Information I have gathered is that to operate this toilet it draws water from the lake.  I notice there is a hose barb at the back of the toilet or the macerator.  Looking in the hull of the boat i find the large hose which runs from the bottom of the toilet  to a valve in the hull.  I'm sure this is where it flushes to the outside. There is a another valve from the hull with a short hose and it is plugged.  If this goes to the macerator I don't see a routing for it.  I haven't been able to find a diagram as to the proper hookup.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks  

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

Do you have any idea of the make/model of your toilet? If not, I can ID it from a photo...that is, provided the photo isn't just of the bowl, 'cuz all bowls look alike. I need a good view of the whole thing.

Once I know what you have, I can direct you to instructions for installing it and using it.  

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

I am not sure of the make/model but I will get a picture(s) of it this weekend.  Thank You 

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

I dunno if you can upload a photo to a reply here or not. IF not, you can attach it to an  email directly to me. My email address is in my profile.

I have a high speed connection and 2 gigs of memory, so don't feel limited to just one photo...send me as many as you think it takes to help me figure out what to tell you.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

This is pure guesswork but from you are describing you have an illegal system that has been disabled. Your setup would seem to pump waste directly from the macerator out through a thru hull valve into the water. That short hose that comes from a thru hull and is plugged would seem to be the raw water supply hose that would connect to that barb fitting on the back of the head. I'll bet money it is a Raritan Crown. I also wager that the reason it was set up that way is because there is an old metal holding tank in that boat that leaks so it is offline. I also wager that short raw water supply line is plugged because the thru hull is an old style water gate with a water faucet wheel on it and it is stuck in the open position and cannot be shut off. Keep us posted as you figure this one out.

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The Judge Rules

I just might take your wagers, Judge...'cuz it's entirely possible that on a 1973 boat, if the system is original, it could be a self-contained recirculating combination toilet/Type I of the kind made by Danforth and Monogram in the '70s. Although they were both discontinued in the early '80s, I continue to run across 'em every now and then, still working...sort of, anyway. In which case, his plumbing would not be illegal.

Or...you may be right...or he has something else entirely. Which is why I'm gonna wait to
find out what he does have before offering any advice and suggest y'all do the same.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

I said it was just a guess but it will be interesting to see what he has. I have seen some horror stories in these old boats that someone is trying to get rid of but if you are handy it can all be fixed.

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The Judge Rules

I believe you are right in most instances.  The plugged raw water line does have a water faucet wheel, whether it is stuck or not I don't know but will find out.  The large hose at the bottom of the toilet does run to a thru hull valve which also has a water faucet wheel.  This valve is free.  I have run water in the bowl and it does drain to the outside.  The grinder on the toilet does work but I didn't want to use it because of no direct water to it.  I will get some pictures soon.  Anxious to find out more.  Thanks for the information.

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

Those "Water faucet wheels" are known as gate valves. They were used quite a bit in the 70s and 80s, but due to the same kinds of failures that also occur at home on a sink (washers gaskets etc) which cause 'em to leak, they no longer meet marine safety standards and should be replaced with proper ball valve seacocks...at least the one on the intake...the discharge seacock will most likely have to removed and sealed if you plan to keep the boat on Lake Kissimmee or any inland lake, 'cuz you'll have to add a holding tank into which ALL toilet waste MUST go, and which can only be emptied via pumpout.

Depending upon the make/model age of your toilet, you may be better off just ripping the whole system out and installing a new one...but I'm reserving judgment on that till I know what you have.

At the risk of appearing to try to sell you something (I do get a whopping $2 royalty for each copy sold), I suggest you check out the link in my signature. It'll take you to a description of a comprehensive "marine sanitation systems 101" manual that I think you'll find useful in learning how to install, operate and maintain the system. I suggest you also research and buy comprehensive "101" books about marine electrical and other systems.

Send me some photos when you get 'em and we'll see what you need to do to end up  with a trouble free system that isn't likely to sink your boat.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

Thanks very much  The information I had read made me think I would probably have to change it out.    I hope to get the pictures to you soon.  Thanks for the web site info.

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

I won't say I win yet, but I am feeling pretty good on that wager Peg. I know just like you do that some of these people will get away with what they can as long as they can on these old boats.

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The Judge Rules

Nice avatar Peg,

I always wondered and imagined what a female commode expert looked like.

I was wrong, nice looking photo.

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Banana Tom

are the 101 books available for sale or was that a jab.........if they are im in the market.

a hose barb is ..........what, is that another term for outlet

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"Come OOON Back............

Edited: 03/09/2008 at 06:45:56 PM by DaleHollow

No it was not a jab. If you'd like a copy, do as I suggested to him: click on the link in my signature. It'll take to a site where you can order it (which is the reason I include that link in my signature).

As for "hose barb"...it's the end of a fitting that a hose goes onto, and can be either an  inlet or an outlet. For instance, holding tank fittings are called a "thread-to-barb" fittings to distinguish one end fro the other. thru-hull fittings also have hose barbs as does any other fitting that hose is connected to. It got the name because they all used to have ridges called "barbs" that were thought to be needed to prevent a hose from working off the fitting. That's been proven not to be the case--at least, not as long as the hose is properly double clamped, so while many fittings still have "barbed" ends, smooth ones have become common. But they're all still called hose barbs.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

Peg, What is your e-mail address?  I will send the pictures to it.  I have 4 or 5 I will send this evening.  Thank again.

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

I e-mailed some pictures to Peg last evening.  She called me later and told me all the bad news,  not unexpected though, and gave me some very helpful advise.  She said The Judge was right in his description of the system.. I will be replacing it in the near future and installing a holding tank.  Got to figure out now where that will go. More questions later.    Thanks for all the good advise.     

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mjharley
1973 32' Burns-Craft
Lake Kissimmee, FL

Yep, Judge was right...his toilet is a VERY old Raritan Crown, prob'ly original to the boat. I suggested he swap it out for a SeaEra 'conversion' (which includes everything but the bowl...the only part of his Crown that doesn't appear to be held together by rust and is actually in pretty good shape). His plumbing, except for the gate valves,is in better shape than I expected except for the fact that the PO connected the intake to the fresh water system--a major no-no unless the toilet is designed to use pressurized flush water...but the wiring is another story--downright scary looking!

a new SeaEra designed to use pressurized flush water, new wiring that isn't likely to set  his boat on fire, new hoses and a holding tank...and Marv will be good to go for at least the next 10 years.

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]

Thank you Peg for your magnanimous gesture. Now can you tell me how I can substitute a picture for the silly crab icon on my posts? Yours does look great. That is not at all how I had pictured the "toilet queen".

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The Judge Rules


Edited: 03/12/2008 at 08:42:08 AM by TheJudge

At the top of this page you'll see a list, "profile," help," etc. Click on profile...scroll down to Miscellaneous Options, where you'll see "author icon"--which is where you can choose from the selection of dreadful clip art. Below that youll see "upload your own author icon." Browse to upload any photo on your own computer...just make sure to reduce it to the maximum size allowed (If you don't know how to do that, check the help files in your image editing software). Then just go to the bottom of the page and click on "update Profile."

As for my not matching your mental image of me...people have imagined me as looking like the Shoebox greeting card old bag (Lucille,Laverne, something like that) for years...even moreso since I got my Medicare card.  

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Peggie Hall, Moderator
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987, Author: "Get Rid of Boat Odors--A Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor."
[L=http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books/detail-books.htm?sku=66438&cat=1304[/L]